Post by eaststand on Jan 30, 2012 16:38:56 GMT 1
This is a bit of a rant!
Looking back at Mancini as a manager, he has always nurtured young talent and has been more than willing to give them a go in the first team. In his days at Milan he brought through players like Balotelli, David Santon (now at Newcastle) and John Obi. He brought in young players like Countinho who is now in the first team. He did it with Fiorentina with players like Kuzmonovic and Montolivo, as well as (if skyitalia are to be believed) instigated them chasing Adam Ljajic and Jovetic.
At City we haven't really seen any of this side to him and I'm not altogether sure why. The youth acquisition system is more a brainchild of the directors and Mancini doesn't really have a say and/or input on the players the youth team sign, his focus is purely on the first team. There are projects like the Rishworth project (http://www.burnley.ac.uk/web09/content/news_list.asp) which the club has set up as a sort of charity organisation funded by the Sheik which goes around giving aspiring footballers at College academies that may not have been given the chance yet, to be clubbed together in certain teams and sent off to go and showcase their abilities in front of watching scouts, of which we get first refusal on all the players. There is also the fact that RM attended 7/14 reserve team games when he joined to succeed Mark Hughes, last season it was as little as 4 from the complete calendar.
I'm not too sure whether it's the money available or the increased pressure that is on him through being City manager and that he would rather be more certain on the here and now that he believes is the best way of keeping himself in the job, rather than what might be better for the club in the long-term. He's a perfectionist and that's why i love him as City manager, scoring 7 and conceding one still isn't good enough if the goal conceded was sloppy/easily preventable, that is what makes him a top manager. But i don't think he has the patience to take the youth talent that we do and have had and develop them. So far as City manager, Boyata has had the most confidence shown in any of the youth players by RM, he's been shipped out and had a really tough time at Bolton. A few things have played it's part in that, i mean he's played mostly at right back, a position he didn't look great in for us alongside Kompany and Lescott so he's bound to look more suspect alongside Cahill and Knight. IMO i think in hindsight it would have probably been better to get him a 6 month loan at a championship club first and then let him make the step up in January if he was doing well.
When we won the FA youth cup in 2006 the future looked bright. We had Micheal Johnson, Nedum Onouha, Stevie Ireland, Kasper Schmicheal, Ishmeil Miller and Micah Richards already on the first team fringes and behind them we had Sturridge, Wiess, Trippier, Ball, McGivern, Cunningham and Mee. Now i know it doesn't always work out for players that show a lot of early promise; they can get complacent and lazy with the attitude that they've already made it, but surely that can't be the case with everyone of those from that youth team. When we signed Sturridge, Trippier and Wiess onto the academy they where hotly sought after players and it wasn't just media talk that Barcelona where after Wiess as Pep G (was U18's barca coach around that time) said before they played Espanyol this season, that Barca where very interested but his farther felt he had a batter chance of settling in and progressing at City. I'll always go back to the Sturridge one because he's shown his quality at Chelsea and it will only take him to step onto that next level (which he is not far off) for us to really regret it. Trippier has been running riot at Burnley, up and down the right flank i think he's got 4 goals and 7 assists to his name this season and if he (and Burnley) carry this form on there might be a good chance of us seeing him playing in the prem next season. The same could be said for Guidetti who now has 14 goals in 13 games and 5 assists to his name for Fayernoord, it remains to be seen whether he'll get his chance but it is something i feel we need to address as a club.
So far RM has given Cunningham, Razak and Boyata game time in insignificant games. Guidetti got a game in the Carling cup at West Brom last season and Nimley got 3 minutes or so against Burnley. The idea when we are struggling for first team players is to give these kids a go, give them a chance to mark themselves on the game. Jim Cassell was quoted the other week "you can't tell whether a player is going to make it until they've played 10-15 first team games". What is the chance's of any of the above getting that at City? I seem to always refer to United but what you need from your fringe players is for them to have an attachment to the club, to know what they have to do when they're needed. Look at Nicky Butt, John O'Shea, Phil Neville, Wes Brown, Darren Gibson and Fletcher. They all came through the clubs ranks and they all probably weren't quite good enough for United, but when they were needed they were more than capable of coming in and delivering the 6-7/10 ratings their manager needed and they very rarely exceeded that. That comes with being around a club for a long time and being treated in the right way, in a sense 'keeping them sweet'. They have been used, put in the team, dropped and when they've passed their usefulness they've moved on and Fergatwat has reshuffled the deck. Now players like the Da Silva twins, Wellbeck, Giggs and Park play those roles for the club. It's very hard to just buy players like that and we've managed it in Zabaleta.
I'm a little concerned that Mancini needs to tweak his approach to his players a little more. Is it really just rejections bitterness that players that have been moved on or ignored under Mancini have had nothing good to say about him, only negatives? He forced probably the most professional football and one that cared about our club the most to speak out against him publicly - something completely out of character. I can't fault Mancini in any other way, this isn't me saying i want out. But i believe that this is something that will become a bigger and bigger issue with out club because UEFA are trying to throw every hurdle possible in front of clubs like us succeeding. They do not want us winning titles and they do not want us doing well in the champions league because they believe it sets the wrong example to world football, they have this skewed that Real Madrid spending £50 million on Luis Figo is okay because 'it's their money' but us getting nowhere near those figures is impure and destructive to football and if we get anywhere by doing so then we will only encourage it. This financial fair play has been in the offing for 4 years now and next on the agenda is to increase the amount of 'trained in country' and 'trained by club' quotas to 10 and 5 respectively for CL registration. Something of which, if happened, our current squad wouldn't be able to cope with as this season we only registered 23 players for the CL because we couldn't meet the 4 trained by club quota with players Mancini felt where good enough, which says alot because surely having a player as an option, even if it was friggin danny mills, is surely better than no option at all (if it had of came to that).
Before the season started we had the best squad in the country by light-years, something which a very anti-city press even over-published. But yet we've faced a spell where our midfield options are limited and have been significantly stretched by the loss of just one player, despite how good a player Yaya is, it has still shown that we are light in the midfield area and could possibly do with another body in there, i thought that was Razak, Mancini clearly disagrees. Mancini was wrongly criticised for complaining that he didn't have the players - 'how can you spend all that money and complain'. But it has highlighted something, Mancini simply does not believe the quality is there in both potential and current ability in the youth team so that even in desperate times, there is no point using them. That in itself is a problem.
The summer presents a problem for Mancini in the sense that if you take Tevez, Bridge, Onouha, Nielson and Stuart Taylor out of this season Prem 25-man squad and adds Balotelli and Savic as they will require registering leaves 3 spaces in the squad and that isn't including Owen Hargreaves. To adhere to the prem registration rules one of those will have to have been trained in England. However, loosing Onouha means the CL 25-man squad is left with only one trained by club player - Micah Richards and a as a result will mean we will only be able to register 22 players for the CL, unless Mancini's two additions to the Prem 25 man squad next season are trained by club players. This means to replace Tevez, because we clearly do need a fourth striker, and to add that extra man in the centre of midfield he will have to do so with players in the youth team or on loan.
The rules state for a player to be classed as trained by club the players has to have been at the club four years between the ages of 16 and 21. To be classed as a trained in country(domestically), they have to have been there two years between the ages of 16 and 21. In both rules players under the age of 21 can play without being registered in either squad.
Currently classed as trained by club that been anywhere near the first team; Boyata, Richards, M.Johnson, McGivern, Abdi Ibrahim, R. Wabara, Joan Angel Roman & Cunningham.
Years left to become trained by club as if july 2012; Suarez (3 years), Rekik (3 years), Henshall (2 years), Razak (1 year), Mohammed Abu (4 years).
This does present a problem for Mancini because it is not just the wages issues he will have to manoeuvre its the registrations. I've said this to a couple of people and their attitude is ''surely they know what they're doing enough to avoid situations like that''. That much may be true, maybe I'm missing something. But the way i see it is Mancini is going to have to sacrifice some players in the summer to accommodate others that will help us play by the rules.
IMO;
- Taylor out, Reserve team keeper takes his place
- Kolarov out, Cunningham In
- Savic out (loan), Boyata OR Wabara In
This would leave him with a squad of 23 players for both the CL and EPL 25 man squads with the ability to go out and buy two more players without having to take nationality or where they were based in the academy into account. Although if we let McGivern and Cunningham sign for Bristol City and Forrest respectively, i don't see how he can reshuffle the pack AND get the couple of players in positions i think Mancini wants.
Looking back at Mancini as a manager, he has always nurtured young talent and has been more than willing to give them a go in the first team. In his days at Milan he brought through players like Balotelli, David Santon (now at Newcastle) and John Obi. He brought in young players like Countinho who is now in the first team. He did it with Fiorentina with players like Kuzmonovic and Montolivo, as well as (if skyitalia are to be believed) instigated them chasing Adam Ljajic and Jovetic.
At City we haven't really seen any of this side to him and I'm not altogether sure why. The youth acquisition system is more a brainchild of the directors and Mancini doesn't really have a say and/or input on the players the youth team sign, his focus is purely on the first team. There are projects like the Rishworth project (http://www.burnley.ac.uk/web09/content/news_list.asp) which the club has set up as a sort of charity organisation funded by the Sheik which goes around giving aspiring footballers at College academies that may not have been given the chance yet, to be clubbed together in certain teams and sent off to go and showcase their abilities in front of watching scouts, of which we get first refusal on all the players. There is also the fact that RM attended 7/14 reserve team games when he joined to succeed Mark Hughes, last season it was as little as 4 from the complete calendar.
I'm not too sure whether it's the money available or the increased pressure that is on him through being City manager and that he would rather be more certain on the here and now that he believes is the best way of keeping himself in the job, rather than what might be better for the club in the long-term. He's a perfectionist and that's why i love him as City manager, scoring 7 and conceding one still isn't good enough if the goal conceded was sloppy/easily preventable, that is what makes him a top manager. But i don't think he has the patience to take the youth talent that we do and have had and develop them. So far as City manager, Boyata has had the most confidence shown in any of the youth players by RM, he's been shipped out and had a really tough time at Bolton. A few things have played it's part in that, i mean he's played mostly at right back, a position he didn't look great in for us alongside Kompany and Lescott so he's bound to look more suspect alongside Cahill and Knight. IMO i think in hindsight it would have probably been better to get him a 6 month loan at a championship club first and then let him make the step up in January if he was doing well.
When we won the FA youth cup in 2006 the future looked bright. We had Micheal Johnson, Nedum Onouha, Stevie Ireland, Kasper Schmicheal, Ishmeil Miller and Micah Richards already on the first team fringes and behind them we had Sturridge, Wiess, Trippier, Ball, McGivern, Cunningham and Mee. Now i know it doesn't always work out for players that show a lot of early promise; they can get complacent and lazy with the attitude that they've already made it, but surely that can't be the case with everyone of those from that youth team. When we signed Sturridge, Trippier and Wiess onto the academy they where hotly sought after players and it wasn't just media talk that Barcelona where after Wiess as Pep G (was U18's barca coach around that time) said before they played Espanyol this season, that Barca where very interested but his farther felt he had a batter chance of settling in and progressing at City. I'll always go back to the Sturridge one because he's shown his quality at Chelsea and it will only take him to step onto that next level (which he is not far off) for us to really regret it. Trippier has been running riot at Burnley, up and down the right flank i think he's got 4 goals and 7 assists to his name this season and if he (and Burnley) carry this form on there might be a good chance of us seeing him playing in the prem next season. The same could be said for Guidetti who now has 14 goals in 13 games and 5 assists to his name for Fayernoord, it remains to be seen whether he'll get his chance but it is something i feel we need to address as a club.
So far RM has given Cunningham, Razak and Boyata game time in insignificant games. Guidetti got a game in the Carling cup at West Brom last season and Nimley got 3 minutes or so against Burnley. The idea when we are struggling for first team players is to give these kids a go, give them a chance to mark themselves on the game. Jim Cassell was quoted the other week "you can't tell whether a player is going to make it until they've played 10-15 first team games". What is the chance's of any of the above getting that at City? I seem to always refer to United but what you need from your fringe players is for them to have an attachment to the club, to know what they have to do when they're needed. Look at Nicky Butt, John O'Shea, Phil Neville, Wes Brown, Darren Gibson and Fletcher. They all came through the clubs ranks and they all probably weren't quite good enough for United, but when they were needed they were more than capable of coming in and delivering the 6-7/10 ratings their manager needed and they very rarely exceeded that. That comes with being around a club for a long time and being treated in the right way, in a sense 'keeping them sweet'. They have been used, put in the team, dropped and when they've passed their usefulness they've moved on and Fergatwat has reshuffled the deck. Now players like the Da Silva twins, Wellbeck, Giggs and Park play those roles for the club. It's very hard to just buy players like that and we've managed it in Zabaleta.
I'm a little concerned that Mancini needs to tweak his approach to his players a little more. Is it really just rejections bitterness that players that have been moved on or ignored under Mancini have had nothing good to say about him, only negatives? He forced probably the most professional football and one that cared about our club the most to speak out against him publicly - something completely out of character. I can't fault Mancini in any other way, this isn't me saying i want out. But i believe that this is something that will become a bigger and bigger issue with out club because UEFA are trying to throw every hurdle possible in front of clubs like us succeeding. They do not want us winning titles and they do not want us doing well in the champions league because they believe it sets the wrong example to world football, they have this skewed that Real Madrid spending £50 million on Luis Figo is okay because 'it's their money' but us getting nowhere near those figures is impure and destructive to football and if we get anywhere by doing so then we will only encourage it. This financial fair play has been in the offing for 4 years now and next on the agenda is to increase the amount of 'trained in country' and 'trained by club' quotas to 10 and 5 respectively for CL registration. Something of which, if happened, our current squad wouldn't be able to cope with as this season we only registered 23 players for the CL because we couldn't meet the 4 trained by club quota with players Mancini felt where good enough, which says alot because surely having a player as an option, even if it was friggin danny mills, is surely better than no option at all (if it had of came to that).
Before the season started we had the best squad in the country by light-years, something which a very anti-city press even over-published. But yet we've faced a spell where our midfield options are limited and have been significantly stretched by the loss of just one player, despite how good a player Yaya is, it has still shown that we are light in the midfield area and could possibly do with another body in there, i thought that was Razak, Mancini clearly disagrees. Mancini was wrongly criticised for complaining that he didn't have the players - 'how can you spend all that money and complain'. But it has highlighted something, Mancini simply does not believe the quality is there in both potential and current ability in the youth team so that even in desperate times, there is no point using them. That in itself is a problem.
The summer presents a problem for Mancini in the sense that if you take Tevez, Bridge, Onouha, Nielson and Stuart Taylor out of this season Prem 25-man squad and adds Balotelli and Savic as they will require registering leaves 3 spaces in the squad and that isn't including Owen Hargreaves. To adhere to the prem registration rules one of those will have to have been trained in England. However, loosing Onouha means the CL 25-man squad is left with only one trained by club player - Micah Richards and a as a result will mean we will only be able to register 22 players for the CL, unless Mancini's two additions to the Prem 25 man squad next season are trained by club players. This means to replace Tevez, because we clearly do need a fourth striker, and to add that extra man in the centre of midfield he will have to do so with players in the youth team or on loan.
The rules state for a player to be classed as trained by club the players has to have been at the club four years between the ages of 16 and 21. To be classed as a trained in country(domestically), they have to have been there two years between the ages of 16 and 21. In both rules players under the age of 21 can play without being registered in either squad.
Currently classed as trained by club that been anywhere near the first team; Boyata, Richards, M.Johnson, McGivern, Abdi Ibrahim, R. Wabara, Joan Angel Roman & Cunningham.
Years left to become trained by club as if july 2012; Suarez (3 years), Rekik (3 years), Henshall (2 years), Razak (1 year), Mohammed Abu (4 years).
This does present a problem for Mancini because it is not just the wages issues he will have to manoeuvre its the registrations. I've said this to a couple of people and their attitude is ''surely they know what they're doing enough to avoid situations like that''. That much may be true, maybe I'm missing something. But the way i see it is Mancini is going to have to sacrifice some players in the summer to accommodate others that will help us play by the rules.
IMO;
- Taylor out, Reserve team keeper takes his place
- Kolarov out, Cunningham In
- Savic out (loan), Boyata OR Wabara In
This would leave him with a squad of 23 players for both the CL and EPL 25 man squads with the ability to go out and buy two more players without having to take nationality or where they were based in the academy into account. Although if we let McGivern and Cunningham sign for Bristol City and Forrest respectively, i don't see how he can reshuffle the pack AND get the couple of players in positions i think Mancini wants.
